Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

[bogey5]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Doesn't anyone else wonder why someone like Shanahan gets to sit in a position "with greater than usual involvement in player decisions" when he's had no real experience?

Seems part of the same trend that put guys like Sakic, Linden, Yzerman into front office positions without a lot of experience.
Call them Presidents, Vice Presidents, GM, whatever and let them hire people as needed.

[On_Plane]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Nonis had experience.
Burke had experience.
As coaches:
Maurice had experience.
Wilson had experience.
Carlyle had experience.

hmmmm...maybe a new approach is in order. As a fan, I'm willing to give it time. I like what I've seen from an organizational standpoint thus far. Now comes the real tough part - time will tell.

I'm so with this. A lot of teams were bad for a really long time that are now competitive (STL, Anaheim, Tampa, LA, SJ). I'd rather have the advertisement "We'ere gonna be really bad for a while and in six years this team will be competitive and will be hunting for a cup for years to come." As opposed to "give us two years... wait, just one more year!"

[Arthur Dailey]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

The only problem with those numbers is that most were for a different era of the NHL. Free agency was much more important. Today, it is all about drafting. I don't recall too many highly sought after free agents being available the past few off seasons.

Allen and Torrey operated prior to the free agent era, so drafting was critical to their success.

Poile and Lamoriello have both been around so long that their careers may span all eras.

[Arthur Dailey]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

That's the problem with 'Leaf Nation', they point to all these other teams and say "See! See! Look what they did!"

They don't realize what the fans of the other franchise have gone through. They don't understand how long the process actually takes. Nor do they realize that very few teams in history have been in as poor an overall position as the Leafs are currently.

I've said it before, it's the overall environment that needs to be overhauled first, before there can be any talk of players. .

I agree with these points.
Leaf fans tend to be bandwagon jumpers. Someone is either a great player or useless. For example Phaneuf. He is not a bad hockey player (nor were Larry Murphy or Bryan McCabe) what he is not is someone you can build a franchise around. The same goes for Kessel. So many Leaf fans were happy with or continue to defend the Kessel trade. For a 'rebuilding' team such a trade is a disaster. You don't give up 3 high draft picks when you are rebuilding. A rebuild by definition requires time and patience.

And the Leafs need to build a solid, consistent, winning culture before they can expect to be a consistently winning team.

The Devils for decades were a prime example. Detroit was/is another. And it looks like Chicago can now be added to that. Franchises that all sunk to the bottom in attendance, professionalism and winning percentage and slowly rebuilt, beginning in the front office. NJ and Detroit also built good minor league teams before their NHL team became dominant.

[Pingeye2_fan]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Nonis had experience.
Burke had experience.
As coaches:
Maurice had experience.
Wilson had experience.
Carlyle had experience.

hmmmm...maybe a new approach is in order. As a fan, I'm willing to give it time. I like what I've seen from an organizational standpoint thus far. Now comes the real tough part - time will tell.

Looking forward to it also, we just need everyone in the boat rowing in the same direction.
Great teams get buy in on all levels from GMs down to 4th liners.

[Arthur Dailey]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Who are the GM's out there that have built multiple teams from the dumper to championships?

A great question that led me to find this article.

http://iveybusinessjournal.com/publication/debunking-the-proven-winner-myth-in-the-national-hockey-league/

As of February, 2008, only seven men had gone on to be the GM of an NHL team after leading another team to the Stanley Cup: these were the aforementioned Tommy Gorman, Bob Gainey (Dallas – 1999), Glen Sather (Edmonton – 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988 and 1990), Cliff Fletcher (Calgary – 1989), Bill Torrey (New York Islanders – 1980, 1981, 1982, and 1983), Milt Schmidt (Boston – 1970 and 1972) and Punch Imlach (Toronto – 1962, 1963, 1964 and 1967). He did acknowledge that only Gorman had won with more than one team. Campbell concluded that there was a one-in-seven chance of a “proven winner” leading a different team to a Stanley Cup, and that he would take these 14.3 percent odds anytime. Of course, this list now includes Brian Burke (Anaheim – 2007) and Jay Feaster (Tampa Bay – 2004), which means that the odds are now down to 11.1 percent.

http://iveybusinessjournal.com/publication/debunking-the-proven-winner-myth-in-the-national-hockey-league/

[bogey5]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

A great question that led me to find this article.

http://iveybusinessjournal.com/publication/debunking-the-proven-winner-myth-in-the-national-hockey-league/

As of February, 2008, only seven men had gone on to be the GM of an NHL team after leading another team to the Stanley Cup: these were the aforementioned Tommy Gorman, Bob Gainey (Dallas – 1999), Glen Sather (Edmonton – 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988 and 1990), Cliff Fletcher (Calgary – 1989), Bill Torrey (New York Islanders – 1980, 1981, 1982, and 1983), Milt Schmidt (Boston – 1970 and 1972) and Punch Imlach (Toronto – 1962, 1963, 1964 and 1967). He did acknowledge that only Gorman had won with more than one team. Campbell concluded that there was a one-in-seven chance of a “proven winner” leading a different team to a Stanley Cup, and that he would take these 14.3 percent odds anytime. Of course, this list now includes Brian Burke (Anaheim – 2007) and Jay Feaster (Tampa Bay – 2004), which means that the odds are now down to 11.1 percent.
http://iveybusinessjournal.com/publi...hockey-league/

Above are old examples of guys that won more than 1 cup over a short period with more or less the same core group. I would put Chicago and LA in the same category in recent times.
But I'm wondering how many GM's are there today that built a championship team from the basement and then started over from the bottom to do it again with a new group of players either in the same organization or a different one.

[On_Plane]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Above are old examples of guys that won more than 1 cup over a short period with more or less the same core group. I would put Chicago and LA in the same category in recent times.
But I'm wondering how many GM's are there today that built a championship team from the basement and then started over from the bottom to do it again with a new group of players either in the same organization or a different one.

I though of Lombardi , but he doesn't fit the criteria exactly. He played a big role in turning the Sharks around, but they had that terrible season and kicked him out. He's done a pretty fantastic job in LA.

[Arthur Dailey]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Above are old examples of guys that won more than 1 cup over a short period with more or less the same core group. I would put Chicago and LA in the same category in recent times.
But I'm wondering how many GM's are there today that built a championship team from the basement and then started over from the bottom to do it again with a new group of players either in the same organization or a different one.

I believe that the article was up to date when it was published (2012) listing all NHL Cup wining GM's.

The concept of GM's who have rebuilt winning teams with the same franchise is an interesting one. I would guess that very few in the recent era get to last that long with one franchise. Poile, Lamoreillo, Holland, Doug Wilson and Sather all have long tenure. Jim Rutherford did in Carolina.

[Pingeye2_fan]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Will other teams fans moan if the leafs win the draft lottery?

Will they say an NBA type fix was in?

From an NHL marketing perspective it would be huge to have McDavid in Toronto.

[On_Plane]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Will other teams fans moan if the leafs win the draft lottery?

Will they say an NBA type fix was in?

From an NHL marketing perspective it would be huge to have McDavid in Toronto.

Do you think if/when he lands in Buffalo that the amount of Buffalo fans will skyrocket? No doubt Toronto would be the most profitable place.

I'm born in 86 and I know a lot of people who became hockey and Penguins fans when Crosby was drafted there. Guys and girls who had no interest in hockey began buying his gear and making the trip down for games. I'm sure if he can land close to "home" a lot of late-90's kids will do the same, if they haven't already.

[NineNineSix]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Will other teams fans moan if the leafs win the draft lottery?

Will they say an NBA type fix was in?

From an NHL marketing perspective it would be huge to have McDavid in Toronto.

These drafts are pretty serious business these days, I believe they are all audited by big time firms. Would stretch belief to think they could be fixed.

It's interesting to consider where the league would really like him to land, if they could choose. On the one hand Toronto is the biggest hockey market, it will do well financially with or without him...obviously way way more with a superstar (if that's what he turns out to be), but you wonder how much exactly. Or I wonder if they would rather see him in a place like Arizona where he could potentially 'save' the franchise.

I would think the incremental revenue a superduperstar in Toronto would generate would be greater than what he could do in Arizona, but it's just a guess.

Toronto with McDavid would absolutely be insane the level of interest the team would generate.

[SeanFTW]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

From an NHL marketing perspective it would be huge to have McDavid in Toronto.

Nope. The NHL already makes the most money from the Leafs, they are the most profitable team in the NHL already. What would help the NHL from a marketing perspective is having McDavid on a team that is struggling, and watch that organization flourish and start to gather more fans who will spend money on merchandise, tickets, etc. People already buy jerseys and tickets in toronto. Pittsburgh is a great example of this, they were struggling financially, then they got Crosby and now look at them.

[Pingeye2_fan]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Do you think if/when he lands in Buffalo that the amount of Buffalo fans will skyrocket? No doubt Toronto would be the most profitable place.

I'm born in 86 and I know a lot of people who became hockey and Penguins fans when Crosby was drafted there. Guys and girls who had no interest in hockey began buying his gear and making the trip down for games. I'm sure if he can land close to "home" a lot of late-90's kids will do the same, if they haven't already.

True, as an example my son is 9 years old and all his buddies like Boston, Los Angeles or Pittsburgh.

[Pingeye2_fan]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Nope. The NHL already makes the most money from the Leafs, they are the most profitable team in the NHL already. What would help the NHL from a marketing perspective is having McDavid on a team that is struggling, and watch that organization flourish and start to gather more fans who will spend money on merchandise, tickets, etc. People already buy jerseys and tickets in toronto. Pittsburgh is a great example of this, they were struggling financially, then they got Crosby and now look at them.

I still think if he landed here the number of McDavid jerseys would be greater than any other city he could end up in.
Based on his possible destinations.