Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

[mrusse01]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

I like Phil, but he has been abysmal over this latest losing stretch.

As he has been during most of the Leafs losing streaks. There is certainly a correlation between Phil being a streaky player and the Leafs being a streaky team.

His complete lack of effort defensively is tough to ignore when the team loses game after game but in reality it is his lack of offense that is more of a factor in the team's losses.

Is Phil a streaky player? I've never seen any evidence to back up the oft repeated claim that he runs hot and cold any more so than any other elite scorer.

I just randomly looked up Sidney Crosby's game log from this year and he had a 20 game stretch where he scored 2 goals.

[iyah]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Is Phil a streaky player? I've never seen any evidence to back up the oft repeated claim that he runs hot and cold any more so than any other elite scorer.

I just randomly looked up Sidney Crosby's game log from this year and he had a 20 game stretch where he scored 2 goals.

I say yes, but I don't know if it is more that any other "elite" scorer but I have the feeling that Stamkos is less streaky.

[mrusse01]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

I say yes, but I don't know if it is more that any other "elite" scorer but I have the feeling that Stamkos is less streaky.

Stamkos is just much better...he's scored 60 goals, Phil has never cracked 40.

Giroux I know is around Phil's production last three seasons I believe, if not beyond Phil. He had a 3 goal in 16 game stretch this year. he also started the season with 2 goals in 13 games.

You may also remember last year Giroux started the year with 1 goal in the first 19 games.

For a guy who scores what Phil does, 30 goals and around 80 points over an 82 game season, I don't think he's especially streaky.

[iyah]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Stamkos is just much better...he's scored 60 goals, Phil has never cracked 40.

Giroux I know is around Phil's production last three seasons I believe, if not beyond Phil. He had a 3 goal in 16 game stretch this year. he also started the season with 2 goals in 13 games.

You may also remember last year Giroux started the year with 1 goal in the first 19 games.

For a guy who scores what Phil does, 30 goals and around 80 points over an 82 game season, I don't think he's especially streaky.

I looked at Patches and he seemed more consistent with similar stats.

Phil should be a 40+ goal scorer and could be if he didn't have these dry spells. He is 3 for 23.

[bogey5]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

According to Sportsnet their goals for average in January was lower than it was when forward passing was not allowed in the 1920's.

[Jeffc]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

According to Sportsnet their goals for average in January was lower than it was when forward passing was not allowed in the 1920's.

It's the least goals EVER scored by a Leafs team in a month. 16 in 13 games I believe. Take out the 5 goal effort in Columbus and you've got 11 goals in 12 games.

[Oakbridge]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Yep, 30+ goals in 5 of his last 6 seasons (would have been 6/6 if not for short season) doesn't count for much anymore. How many times has Kane done it?

Boston traded him for 2 first rounders and a second... even if you don't expect what they ultimately got, on what planet is that next to nothing?

I am shocked that Kessel's numbers with the Leafs are so high. What is interesting are his numbers when he was in Boston. Some might look at it as he can only post the good offensive numbers when he's on a lousy team. Put him on a good balanced team and his numbers suffer. Which kinda disrupts the argument that if Kessel had been playing with Chicago all along...

The difference is his assists. Kane has posted 40+ assists every season and was on pace for at least 40+ assists in the short season. Kessel has done that twice out of 7 seasons although he also would have done it in the strike year.

While he appears to be improving in the assist area, he has never struck me as being a 'team' player. Certainly not what I would build a franchise around. And in the current sad situation that is the hockey side of MLSE, not a player I would plan on keeping for the future.

Some contending team will probably be interested come trade deadline for a Kessel like player. Is there insider knowledge that will cause some teams to not bite if the Leafs offer him up? Perhaps. Has he developed a reputation? Again perhaps. But at the trade deadline, some teams will do anything to try to put themselves on top. The best thing for the Leafs to do is to not ask for the moon. I'd consider any reasonable offer if for no other reason than to make a clean start. Regardless of whether Kessel is a good player or not, there is too much of a bad taste right now for him to have any form of successful future in Toronto.

As for the draft picks, the Leafs were expected to finish in the top 1/3 of the league when they made the trade (according to Burke). Take a look at what players were picked in the bottom third of the 2010 draft. Same with the 2011 draft. Most would have said that any 'franchise' player would command more than that.

[TMAzng01f3R]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Leafs are down 2-1 to Nashville as I write this; here's hopin' we lose and get ever more closer to 1st overall (pick)! Its very doubtful BUT... if we can get 2nd or 3rd overall, I think our chances of picking 1st are 13% and 7% respectively (dead last having a 20% chance).

Just for random conversation purposes, which Leaf players would YOU trade this year and for what!??

[P25]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

The list of players I wouldn't trade is MUCH shorter than the list of players I would trade.

[sdavis33]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

And for those who care, Kessel has looked awesome tonight. Well ok, maybe not. He did hit a better wedge than Tiger in the 2nd though.

Whole first line looks like they just don't care

[RaoulDuke]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

I am shocked that Kessel's numbers with the Leafs are so high. What is interesting are his numbers when he was in Boston. Some might look at it as he can only post the good offensive numbers when he's on a lousy team. Put him on a good balanced team and his numbers suffer. Which kinda disrupts the argument that if Kessel had been playing with Chicago all along...

The difference is his assists. Kane has posted 40+ assists every season and was on pace for at least 40+ assists in the short season. Kessel has done that twice out of 7 seasons although he also would have done it in the strike year.

While he appears to be improving in the assist area, he has never struck me as being a 'team' player. Certainly not what I would build a franchise around. And in the current sad situation that is the hockey side of MLSE, not a player I would plan on keeping for the future.

As for the draft picks, the Leafs were expected to finish in the top 1/3 of the league when they made the trade (according to Burke). Take a look at what players were picked in the bottom third of the 2010 draft. Same with the 2011 draft. Most would have said that any 'franchise' player would command more than that.

Your analysis of Kessel is laughable. He played 3 seasons with Boston, a very good team... and put up very good numbers for a promising young talent coming into his own. His 3rd year, just before the trade, he scored 36G (60pts) in 70 games, which reaffirmed what many believed — that he had potential to become a star.

Boston traded him because they were up against the cap and couldn't afford the contract Kessel would have been looking for. It's as simple as that. He wasn't the 'franchise' player at that point, as you referred to him as, but Boston scored a fair return that turned out good for them (sort of).

Kessel is what he is, a great goal scorer that people expect the wrong things from. He's not a leader, and shouldn't be expected to be. His contract shouldn't dictate the role people think he should take on. For what it's worth, I wouldn't build a team around Kane... take Toews away and tell me he'll lead a team to glory.

The Leafs have made a lot of bad decisions, for a long time, but Kessel isn't one of them. Blaming their defensive woes on him is just stupid. Find a real leader to put a C on, and put some defensemen in front of a pair of solid goalies (that they have) and let Kessel do what he does best.

I'll just never understand why Kessel gets singled out the most for poor defense; as if the rest of the Leaf forwards are spectacular 2 way players.

[P25]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Your analysis of Kessel is laughable.
.
.
.
I'll just never understand why Kessel gets singled out the most for poor defense; as if the rest of the Leaf forwards are spectacular 2 way players.

[bogeyorbetter]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Your analysis of Kessel is laughable. He played 3 seasons with Boston, a very good team... and put up very good numbers for a promising young talent coming into his own. His 3rd year, just before the trade, he scored 36G (60pts) in 70 games, which reaffirmed what many believed — that he had potential to become a star.

Boston traded him because they were up against the cap and couldn't afford the contract Kessel would have been looking for. It's as simple as that. He wasn't the 'franchise' player at that point, as you referred to him as, but Boston scored a fair return that turned out good for them (sort of).

Kessel is what he is, a great goal scorer that people expect the wrong things from. He's not a leader, and shouldn't be expected to be. His contract shouldn't dictate the role people think he should take on. For what it's worth, I wouldn't build a team around Kane... take Toews away and tell me he'll lead a team to glory.

The Leafs have made a lot of bad decisions, for a long time, but Kessel isn't one of them. Blaming their defensive woes on him is just stupid. Find a real leader to put a C on, and put some defensemen in front of a pair of solid goalies (that they have) and let Kessel do what he does best.

I'll just never understand why Kessel gets singled out the most for poor defense; as if the rest of the Leaf forwards are spectacular 2 way players.

my take on the situation summed up well. and a your last point about kessel being singled out has been something I have been trying to get across to people since we acquired him.

[Chambokl]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Boston traded him because they were up against the cap and couldn't afford the contract Kessel would have been looking for. It's as simple as that. He wasn't the 'franchise' player at that point, as you referred to him as, but Boston scored a fair return that turned out good for them (sort of).

Well... The Bruins offered him 4 years for 16 millions... and it wasn't enough... He signed for 5 yrs $27 millions in Toronto...

Boston was not going to offered more, Claude Julien (with his defensive style) and Kessell didn't see eye to eye...

I think Kessell contract is now 8 years for $64 millions... easy to say let him do his thing... but for that amount of $$ you should expect more than playing offence... an $8 million player has to be a leader and should be playing good defensive hockey...

At this salary he is compared to Crosby, Getzlaf, Perry, Ovy, Staal, ... most of them are Captains... Him and Phaneuf are taking a big chunk of the salary cap... not much room to get a solid guy in the $7 to $9 million to be a great leader / Captain material...

[wrigley]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2014-15 THREAD

Another loss and tank nation rolls on. Not sure if this has been posted, but this site runs a simulation on the draft.

http://nhllotterysimulator.com/#/