Uber VS Taxis

[mpare]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

It's interesting to note that most, if not all, who favour the Uber enterprise imply that it is a new-kind of taxi company. Curiously, according to the news items that I have read, Uber denies (at least in the city of Toronto action), that it is a taxi company. Rather, it views itself as a communication company. How the company reconciles its description with a California decision that found that its service providers were Uber employees remains to be seen.

[pendlebg]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

I don't think it's quite that simple, is it?

Dentistry is both a business and it's a regulated profession. I'm pretty sure my dentist is making a profit.

But I agree in general terms about government and business mixing. Which is why they generally regulate things rather than try to "do" things. They're neither agile nor adept at picking winners.

There was a subtle but important distinction in there. The key phrase is you need the government regulation to make a profit. Remove the regulation and remove the profit. e.g. your business model depends on the regulation. That would not be the case in your example of dentistry. In the case of the current Toronto taxi industry the value of the plates is completely an artificial creation directly tied to the government regulation. Kill the regulation and you kill the value of the plate and you kill the expected profit.

[Ignatius Reilly]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

There was a subtle but important distinction in there. The key phrase is you need the government regulation to make a profit. Remove the regulation and remove the profit. e.g. your business model depends on the regulation. That would not be the case in your example of dentistry. In the case of the current Toronto taxi industry the value of the plates is completely an artificial creation directly tied to the government regulation. Kill the regulation and you kill the value of the plate and you kill the expected profit.

You are (of course) mostly right. So allow me to make a few subtle distinctions of my own.

It's not the regulation that supports the value of the plate, it's the limited supply.

If I could hang a shingle out as an unlicensed tooth-fixer, supply and demand would have an effect on dentist's incomes. Maybe I've got a knack for it, I just never had the schooling. (or the Latin /BeyondTheFringe).

[Bladerunner]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

You are (of course) mostly right. So allow me to make a few subtle distinctions of my own.

It's not the regulation that supports the value of the plate, it's the limited supply.

If I could hang a shingle out as an unlicensed tooth-fixer, supply and demand would have an effect on dentist's incomes. Maybe I've got a knack for it, I just never had the schooling. (or the Latin /BeyondTheFringe).

Yes, but your poor dental skills would quickly lead patients to look elsewhere...for licensed dentists

There is a barrier to being a dentist that is more than supply and demand. It's called training.

Taxi driving...not so much

Bladerunner

[Oakbridge]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

It's interesting to note that most, if not all, who favour the Uber enterprise imply that it is a new-kind of taxi company. Curiously, according to the news items that I have read, Uber denies (at least in the city of Toronto action), that it is a taxi company. Rather, it views itself as a communication company. How the company reconciles its description with a California decision that found that its service providers were Uber employees remains to be seen.

Hmm, sounds very much like Napster's argument that it wasn't the cause of illegal downloading. "We're just providing a service..."

The biggest issue appears to be insurance. I'm waiting for the first time someone is robbed while in an Uber vehicle (or worse, by an Uber driver). Or the first time there is a serious accident involving an Uber vehicle.

I wonder how many of the Uber vehicle owners are reporting to their insurance company that their vehicle is being used to transport passengers? So if a passenger did try to make a claim how would it be handled? I've heard that Uber claims that they have insurance but are they covered in every jurisdiction where they offer their service? And are they meeting the local requirements?

I can see claims being denied by a driver's own insurance because they voided the conditions of their policy by not reporting what it was being used for.

[wrigley]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

I live in Toronto and do not drive so I use Uber many times a week. I think it is a great service and it is so simple. I really only have to touch my smart phone 3 times and a cab is on its way. I have found the Uber drivers more friendly, better at navigating the streets (they find the quickest route with the Uber GPS) and it is cheaper.

I am one to believe in Capitalism, Uber adds competition which means the old monopolistic/Oligopolistic model has to innovate. The barrier to entry is very high for these models due to the large amount of capital needed along with the strict regulations and Uber broke through it.

+1

It appears taxi drivers are fighting for loss revenues, but the bottom line is those licenses are worth hundreds of thousands. With the success of Uber those licenses worth a lot less.

[gimmeabogey]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

Both the existing taxi licensing system and Uber models are flawed.

One is steeped in an outdated and unfair regulatory model that was allowed to develop into an oligarchy over the years as a result of political and bureaucratic neglect.

The other relies on a new an innovative technology which invites upstart mavericks to free wheel in flagrant violation of any regulatory controls.

John Tory seems to correctly have recognized the root of the problem as two competing systems which both have to change, and I think, sees Uber as the leverage to change the existing system while bringing some more reasoned legislative framework to the entire industry.

Other cities have also struggled with this issue. Some have developed separate regulatory systems for each model.

I hope Toronto does not do that. We would be perpetuating two flawed systems rather than finding one solution which fixes two problems.

If everyone understood how the current taxi industry came to be, you'd understand it's not flawed at all.
1) drivers need to go to school
2) drivers get licenced (criminal check, legal status in Canada)
3) drivers learn CPR
4) vehicles meet certain criteria( make, model, age)
5) vehicles have commercial insurance ($6,000 vs $1,500)
6) vehicles pass safety and cleanliness checks

The only thing that inflates the cost of cabs is the licence plate rental of roughly $1400 mo. How that came about is when a driver worked X amount of years, they could apply and get a license in due time. This is meant as a reward to lifers. Eventually when they retire they could rent out their plate.
Uber dispatch fees exceed cab companies dispatch fees, Uber fees is almost as much as dispatch and plate rental put together, not quite. Basically Uber drivers get paid less, you don't get an inspected vehicle and you have no insurance coverage. Uber makes all the money. I'll stick with licensed cabs thanks.

[wrigley]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

If everyone understood how the current taxi industry came to be, you'd understand it's not flawed at all.
1) drivers need to go to school
2) drivers get licenced (criminal check, legal status in Canada)
3) drivers learn CPR
4) vehicles meet certain criteria( make, model, age)
5) vehicles have commercial insurance ($6,000 vs $1,500)
6) vehicles pass safety and cleanliness checks

The only thing that inflates the cost of cabs is the licence plate rental of roughly $1400 mo. How that came about is when a driver worked X amount of years, they could apply and get a license in due time. This is meant as a reward to lifers. Eventually when they retire they could rent out their plate.
Uber dispatch fees exceed cab companies dispatch fees, Uber fees is almost as much as dispatch and plate rental put together, not quite. Basically Uber drivers get paid less, you don't get an inspected vehicle and you have no insurance coverage. Uber makes all the money. I'll stick with licensed cabs thanks.

1) drivers need to go to school

What is there to learn? Everyone has GPS, your also guaranteed not to get taken for an extended ride.

2) drivers get licenced (criminal check, legal status in Canada)

What if the owner leases out or rents out his plate?

3) drivers learn CPR

Every driver is certified in CPR?

4) vehicles meet certain criteria( make, model, age)

Every Uber car I've been in exceeds the best cab that I have seen in the last thirty years.

5) vehicles have commercial insurance ($6,000 vs $1,500)

I think Uber has to clear this matter up.

6) vehicles pass safety and cleanliness checks

See #4, how often are they required to to pass these tests?

Price aside, I find the Uber drivers more courteous and the cars are without a doubt a lot cleaner.

[Fore Warned]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

If everyone understood how the current taxi industry came to be, you'd understand it's not flawed at all.
1) drivers need to go to school
2) drivers get licenced (criminal check, legal status in Canada)
3) drivers learn CPR
4) vehicles meet certain criteria( make, model, age)
5) vehicles have commercial insurance ($6,000 vs $1,500)
6) vehicles pass safety and cleanliness checks

The only thing that inflates the cost of cabs is the licence plate rental of roughly $1400 mo. How that came about is when a driver worked X amount of years, they could apply and get a license in due time. This is meant as a reward to lifers. Eventually when they retire they could rent out their plate.
Uber dispatch fees exceed cab companies dispatch fees, Uber fees is almost as much as dispatch and plate rental put together, not quite. Basically Uber drivers get paid less, you don't get an inspected vehicle and you have no insurance coverage. Uber makes all the money. I'll stick with licensed cabs thanks.

Therein lies the flaw. Licenses ought to be no more than an administrative instrument for permitting and regulatory purposes. The cost of these should be solely to recoup regulatory costs.

The existing licenses should be abolished and the existing licensing system should be scraped. In its place, a new, non-transferable, permit based licensing system should be instituted for licensing anyone operating a ride service and for the cars they use.

[bl8d]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

quote gimmebogey post #52


"The only thing that inflates the cost of cabs is the licence plate rental of roughly $1400 mo. How that came about is when a driver worked X amount of years, they could apply and get a license in due time. This is meant as a reward to lifers. Eventually when they retire they could rent out their plate."

This Retire was the model idea 40+years ago, but many of the plates were sold to taxi fleets for 30,000 or less. If that sounds cheap, remember you could still buy a house for that back then.
Plates are 100,000+ now, almost impossible to obtain from the City now, and other than do a shift behind the wheel no hope for a recent immigrant to own.

When the overwhelming trend to a shifting workforce of drivers took place who had no ambition to make this their life work and little incentive to keep the vehicle mint other than not to wreck it.
If you were to trace the rude taxi driver and clean car issues it started when the 3rd world took over the Taxi business.
Before you climb on your PC horse this is not meant as a racist jibe, but it is the reality for an abundant immigrant resource without employment hope.

[AdiosAmigo]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

not sure if this has been said in the thread yet. Why don't taxi drivers quit and become uber drivers?

[bl8d]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

not sure if this has been said in the thread yet. Why don't taxi drivers quit and become uber drivers?

because they don't have the means.

[AdiosAmigo]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

because they don't have the means.

i know they don't own their cabs, but they don't own their own car outside of work?

[Bern]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

i know they don't own their cabs, but they don't own their own car outside of work?

Could you afford to run a car if you made $9 bucks an hour?

[wrigley]

Re: Uber VS Taxis

not sure if this has been said in the thread yet. Why don't taxi drivers quit and become uber drivers?

Not 100% sure, but some taxi drivers are Uber drivers also.