Justin on small business owners

[bl8d]

Re: Justin on small business owners

“A democracy is always temporary in nature;
it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover
that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates
who promise the most benefits from the public treasury,
with the result that every democracy will finally collapse
due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship”

Very True.
The difficulty lies in recognizing the departure when it's gradual.
If you keep feeding carrots to a blindfolded horse will it sense the edge you are about to lead it over?

[spazzdla]

Re: Justin on small business owners

That quote is from the 18th century, I believe. Any evidence in the 200+ years since that democracies are more prone to economic collapse than dictatorships, oligarchies, etc.? How many democracies have financially collapsed and been replaced by dictatorships? (And how many dictatorships have collapsed and been replaced by democracies?) I mean, they're nice pretty words and all and appeal to the conservative crowd that thinks "well, it just makes sense!", but like a lot of things that sound good to those who want to believe them, I'm not sure history has proven this quote to be correct. Perhaps the quote is more akin to fear-mongering than common-sense.

True there hasn't been a collapse of a large democrate nation yet.. YET. I have bad feelings of the current currency war going on.

[Benz]

Re: Justin on small business owners

I wish we would distinguish between "loopholes" and "cheating".

Agreed. There is a difference between avoiding taxes and evading them.

[Emtee]

Re: Justin on small business owners

So you mean if we enforce the tax law as it's actually written and not allow them to cheat the system out of millions of dollars, this will drive away our professionals?

As Bobby Jones has implied it is not necessarily cheating. Moreover there is relatively little leakage to the tax system. However, yes, if the gov takes away what little edge these professionals have to save some money, you'll probably see some move State-side.

[bogey5]

Re: Justin on small business owners

As Bobby Jones has implied it is not necessarily cheating. Moreover there is relatively little leakage to the tax system. However, yes, if the gov takes away what little edge these professionals have to save some money, you'll probably see some move State-side.

How many more than would leave anyways? Is the U.S. going to take in a flood of tax refugees from Canada?

[dmcdam]

Re: Justin on small business owners

As Bobby Jones has implied it is not necessarily cheating. Moreover there is relatively little leakage to the tax system. However, yes, if the gov takes away what little edge these professionals have to save some money, you'll probably see some move State-side.

What Trudeau said in that interview was in response to Mansbridge asking if he'd cut taxes for small businesses. His response indicated that they would look at it but ensure that those that would take advantage of it would be the type of small businesses that generate jobs, and not just those looking to lower their taxes further. To me it doesn't sound like he's actively going after this group.

[Ignatius Reilly]

Re: Justin on small business owners

As Bobby Jones has implied it is not necessarily cheating. Moreover there is relatively little leakage to the tax system. However, yes, if the gov takes away what little edge these professionals have to save some money, you'll probably see some move State-side.

I'm glad to see so many clarifying the difference between cheating and avoidance. I have pursued the avoidance strategy with some vigor with my own corp.

I don't know the numbers, but I think the vast majority of MD graduates remain in Canada, despite the better income opportunities just next door to the south.

By coincidence, I was talking to a guy yesterday who told me how his sister chose to practice in the UK, despite a salary offer of just under $1million from a US hospital. In 1995.

She just didn't want to live or work in that system.

Dental and legal fees aren't really subject to the same public-purse constraints as the docs have.

[bogeyorbetter]

Re: Justin on small business owners

As Bobby Jones has implied it is not necessarily cheating. Moreover there is relatively little leakage to the tax system. However, yes, if the gov takes away what little edge these professionals have to save some money, you'll probably see some move State-side.

The professionals you speak of are not the ones avoiding the tax system. It is the tradesman/contractors that comtinually beat the system. It is not.uncommon for a small privately owned contractor to gross nearly six figures, and claim 60-70% of their earnings. These taxes are avoided mainly theough cash jobs and cash payment to employees. Not to mention the lost revenues on the thousands of jobs that are done without permits.

[Sergio]

Re: Justin on small business owners

Loopholes; there are a lot of people on the opposite end of the income spectrum using them too. That's ok too right? It's an inadequacy in the laws that the people legally take advantage of. Oh, but wait, there is a difference...

[Bellyhungry]

Re: Justin on small business owners

Me thinks Justin's comment is in reaction to the #AngryCon's assertion that 'everyone cheats on their taxes, your lying piece of sh^t.'

[Benz]

Re: Justin on small business owners

The professionals you speak of are not the ones avoiding the tax system. It is the tradesman/contractors that comtinually beat the system. It is not.uncommon for a small privately owned contractor to gross nearly six figures, and claim 60-70% of their earnings. These taxes are avoided mainly theough cash jobs and cash payment to employees. Not to mention the lost revenues on the thousands of jobs that are done without permits.

I can't speak to the actual numbers, but everyone knows that it is common practice for tradespeople to work for cash. However, every dollar in tax (HST on the work itself, corporate taxes or personal income taxes) that the tradespeople evade is another tax dollar that has to be made up by the rest of us who have to keep proper records. Remember that the next time a plumber/electrician/handyman complains about 'the little guys getting screwed' by the public or the government or both.

[Bern]

Re: Justin on small business owners

The professionals you speak of are not the ones avoiding the tax system. It is the tradesman/contractors that comtinually beat the system. It is not.uncommon for a small privately owned contractor to gross nearly six figures, and claim 60-70% of their earnings. These taxes are avoided mainly theough cash jobs and cash payment to employees. Not to mention the lost revenues on the thousands of jobs that are done without permits.

Unless KPMG has numerous blue collar clients, tax evasion is not limited to one socio-economic group.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/kpmg-offshore-sham-deceived-tax-authorities-cra-alleges-1.3209838

[TheOldCaddy]

Re: Justin on small business owners

That quote is from the 18th century, I believe. Any evidence in the 200+ years since that democracies are more prone to economic collapse than dictatorships, oligarchies, etc.? How many democracies have financially collapsed and been replaced by dictatorships?

Hmm.. Argentina, more than once? Venezuela? (If you don't think Chavez is a dictator, then I'd like your definition.) Weimar Germany (you might have read about that one.. apparently, there were some serious consequences)? Greece? Russia, after Lenin's NEP collapsed? (Yeah, Stalin was 'democratically elected'; see my comment about Chavez).

I'm not even going to mention any African countries, since I really don't see the distinction between, say, democratically elected Robert Mugabe, who slaughtered thousands of blacks who opposed him, and whatever thugs are running Somalia or Rwanda or Congo.

[Pimento Cheese]

Re: Justin on small business owners

Hmm.. Argentina, more than once? Venezuela? (If you don't think Chavez is a dictator, then I'd like your definition.) Weimar Germany (you might have read about that one.. apparently, there were some serious consequences)? Greece? Russia, after Lenin's NEP collapsed? (Yeah, Stalin was 'democratically elected'; see my comment about Chavez).

I'm not even going to mention any African countries, since I really don't see the distinction between, say, democratically elected Robert Mugabe, who slaughtered thousands of blacks who opposed him, and whatever thugs are running Somalia or Rwanda or Congo.

I'm curious to know if you think you actually answered my questions as posed.

[TheOldCaddy]

Re: Justin on small business owners

I couldn't find Canadian numbers easily (why is that the StatsCan we pay for doesn't make its findings ALL publicly available? And they could take some of the time they saved from not having to do the mandatory census to make their websites at least a tiny bit user friendly), so I'm using US ones here:

http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners

the top 10% of all income earners pay ~70% of all income taxes.

the next 40% (i.e. from 10 to 50%) pay ~27%.

the bottom 50% pay 3%.

Yep, those rich folks are getting away with murder! (And I make just under $50k, and 40% of my pay cheque is taken for tax/CPP/EI, not that I will ever see a dime from either of the last two).

"Soak the rich" is the type of class hatred I expect from the NDP, but considering Justin's mommy is a millionaire, and I bet PET was pretty well-heeled by the time he kicked, it seems disingenuous.