Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

[SeanFTW]

I just got home from a presentation today with a group of upper management, executive types, and I right off the bat I noticed something strange...

There were a total of 41 people in the room, including my team of 5 (not upper management/executives). Out of those 41 people, 2 were women, and 5 were non-white males. The rest were all white males. 34 of them in a room of 41. In addition to that, 2 of the 5 non-white males were on our team. I won't name the industry of the people in the room, but jobs ranged from account executive, sales, IT, etc.

There was a thread here not too long ago, about job equality. Many were arguing that there already is job equality, and that women and minorities have just as much opportunities as white men. Those same people complaining about how white men have it the hardest, blah blah. This room proved to me that we have a very long way to go.

I'm not sure what the point of this post is, but I wanted a place to write about this and hopefully spark a discussion. Plus, given the current political situation, I think it's fairly relevant to mention.

[Benz]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

Earlier this year I was watching a Raptors game, and right off the bat I noticed something strange...

[Richd]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

Earlier this year I was watching a Raptors game, and right off the bat I noticed something strange...

no women?

[hackerhare]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

Such situations take a long time to level. For example, in the late 70's, I was in engineering school and out of a total undergrad population of about 2,000 there were only about 5 black students, and less than 100 women. Orientals and Jewish students are disproportionately represented. So this unevenness will propagate through normal career progression. Now I guess the different groups are more evenly represented, but will take years to work itself through.

[golfinseb]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

I like when people get jobs based on thier ability and nothing else. I guess that's how the raptors hiring practice works.

[SeanFTW]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

I like when people get jobs based on thier ability and nothing else. I guess that's how the raptors hiring practice works.

What are you saying? That the room I was in is proof that white men are predominantly smarter and more able than women and minorities? You may look around the room I was in and see nothing wrong with it, but I can't.

The argument about basketball is stupid. Basketball is a sport, and "hiring" is based on skill and physical ability. Basketball is an extremely cheap and accessible sport to practice, and has long been the sport of choice for young black males who come from impoverished areas. A profile of the majority of NBA players grew up in these circumstances and dedicated their lives to basketball, and ended up with scholarships.

[4underthru9]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

I just got home from a presentation today with a group of upper management, executive types, and I right off the bat I noticed something strange...

There were a total of 41 people in the room, including my team of 5 (not upper management/executives). Out of those 41 people, 2 were women, and 5 were non-white males. The rest were all white males. 34 of them in a room of 41. In addition to that, 2 of the 5 non-white males were on our team. I won't name the industry of the people in the room, but jobs ranged from account executive, sales, IT, etc.

There was a thread here not too long ago, about job equality. Many were arguing that there already is job equality, and that women and minorities have just as much opportunities as white men. Those same people complaining about how white men have it the hardest, blah blah. This room proved to me that we have a very long way to go.

I'm not sure what the point of this post is, but I wanted a place to write about this and hopefully spark a discussion. Plus, given the current political situation, I think it's fairly relevant to mention.

Did it not occur to you in your studies of this; that they just maybe the best qualified people for those positions, or do you know people who you think should have those positions.

[Gridiron]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

I just got home from a presentation today with a group of upper management, executive types, and I right off the bat I noticed something strange...

There were a total of 41 people in the room, including my team of 5 (not upper management/executives). Out of those 41 people, 2 were women, and 5 were non-white males. The rest were all white males. 34 of them in a room of 41. In addition to that, 2 of the 5 non-white males were on our team. I won't name the industry of the people in the room, but jobs ranged from account executive, sales, IT, etc.

There was a thread here not too long ago, about job equality. Many were arguing that there already is job equality, and that women and minorities have just as much opportunities as white men. Those same people complaining about how white men have it the hardest, blah blah. This room proved to me that we have a very long way to go.

I'm not sure what the point of this post is, but I wanted a place to write about this and hopefully spark a discussion. Plus, given the current political situation, I think it's fairly relevant to mention.

Agree with you, long way to go. However, should they just fire 20 of the white guys immediately or do they get to continue with their careers?

[golfinseb]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

Do you want hiring practices that exclude white males? We all know this issue well, I am anti anything that excludes people based on anything other than ability. In time we will see those ratios change.

[dmcdam]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

Do you want hiring practices that exclude white males? We all know this issue well, I am anti anything that excludes people based on anything other than ability. In time we will see those ratios change.

How do you reconcile that with a unionized environment where seniority is the measuring stick?

[Benz]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

What are you saying? That the room I was in is proof that white men are predominantly smarter and more able than women and minorities? You may look around the room I was in and see nothing wrong with it, but I can't.

The argument about basketball is stupid. Basketball is a sport, and "hiring" is based on skill and physical ability. Basketball is an extremely cheap and accessible sport to practice, and has long been the sport of choice for young black males who come from impoverished areas. A profile of the majority of NBA players grew up in these circumstances and dedicated their lives to basketball, and ended up with scholarships.

To the contrary, the basketball analogy is right on point (no pun intended). Yes, playing pro basketball is based on skill and physical ability, just as being in business is based on skill and mental ability. In both cases, people either have the skills and abilities, or they don't. Further, many business professionals dedicated themselves to getting a quality education and working hard in order to succeed in their chosen careers. Given this, how is this unlike the young black males who dedicate themselves to playing and practicing, getting athletic scholarships and playing in the NBA?

Is it your underlying assumption that to play in the NBA one must have exceptional natural talents therefore domination by one minority is acceptable, but given the appropriate opportunity just about anyone can succeed in business therefore any demographic imbalance is the result of discrimination?

[SeanFTW]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

Agree with you, long way to go. However, should they just fire 20 of the white guys immediately or do they get to continue with their careers?

No, obviously they shouldn't just fire them. I'm simply bringing up evidence of a very real problem. When the numbers are skewed as heavily as I mentioned above, there is a problem. That problem is not simply hiring practices, but rather goes further back then that. Access to education, inherent biases, etc.

[Big Shooter]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

No, obviously they shouldn't just fire them. I'm simply bringing up evidence of a very real problem. When the numbers are skewed as heavily as I mentioned above, there is a problem. That problem is not simply hiring practices, but rather goes further back then that. Access to education, inherent biases, etc.

You used the word "problem" above 3 times. Is it REALLY a Problem?!

[Gridiron]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

No, obviously they shouldn't just fire them. I'm simply bringing up evidence of a very real problem. When the numbers are skewed as heavily as I mentioned above, there is a problem. That problem is not simply hiring practices, but rather goes further back then that. Access to education, inherent biases, etc.

Agree with everything you are saying. Just going to take time for people who are getting education now (and the past 10-15 years) to work their way through the system in meaningful numbers. So we must remain vigilant and working towards the goal. Perhaps members of your team in the future will replace some of those in the room and balance the scales a little more.
On the other hand, in my industry, insurance, women make up a considerable portion of the workforce. I have been on teams where it was 19 women and me. Currently the team I am on is an even 3/3 split and our VP is a woman. Where we don't do so well is with minorities and while it has improved over my time, there is a long way to go on that front.

[vermin40]

Re: Equal Opportunity? Not so sure...

I'm still upset that at the Olympics white sprinters did not medal.....nor did black swimmers.
Racism is the only reason.