Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

[Jeffc]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

Really? The area is named for the tribe. Big difference between mid 20 century caricatures of Native Americans.

If your suggestion is we need to change all Native names, then what should we call our country? Our capitol? Our cottage country?

that and there is no caricature of a native used as a logo for the city. Times have changed, the teams should change as well. Remember the Braves tomahawk chop? I don't see that as being too sensitive to native americans and I'm pretty sure most natives would find it offensive.

[parskiandhutch]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

Has anyone asked Native peoples? 90% of them didn't find Redskins ofensive in a poll and many were actually proud of it. Let's not protect people in ways they don't want protection.

I call BS on that 90% statistic.

It's not really up to you to decide if the word is offensive. People throw the word "retarded" around all the time to describe things that are dumb. Having a son with severe special needs I find it really offensive no matter the context.

Precisely. The only people who can decide are Native Canadian and American people. That is who raised this to the Canadian courts.

It's not just the name, but the particular use of Chief Wahoo is ridiculously racist. The word 'Indian' is rarely used even by natives....it's offensive to them, not to mention geographically incorrect!

Over my life I've had the fortune of participating in the Creator's game (lacrosse) on reserves in Canada and the US with and against the great Haudenosaunee people. Twice we had guys walk into the dressing room wearing the Wahoo logo and they were told under no uncertain terms to never wear that hat into that room again. It's also curious to note that the Native lacrosse teams have logos that honor their past, rather than caricatures like Chief Wahoo. To me, that is the real litmus test.

The Edmonton Eskimos need to reconsider their team name as well. Times have changed.

[Pimento Cheese]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

The bigger issue is Chief Wahoo, which is blatantly and undeniably racist.

[51Phantom]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

" Aw, you can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forfty percent of all people know that."

[mpare]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

Jeffrey Miller, a Canadian lawyer, writer and blogger, wrote two blogs on this issue generally in 2010 and 2003. The 2010 article is linked here. The earlier article can be linked in the 2010 article.

http://jeffreymiller.ca/chief-wahoo-still-has-nothing-to-smile-about/

[elmeroil]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

At the moment they could call them the Cleveland **** kicking the Jays.....I don't find the Indians name offensive, esspecially when their fans wear it with pride as someone said above.

[parskiandhutch]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

At the moment they could call them the Cleveland **** kicking the Jays.....I don't find the Indians name offensive, esspecially when their fans wear it with pride as someone said above.

Maybe their fans are ignorant to the history and racial stereotyping? Maybe they feel entitled to use the name and logo, because they have no clue what it's all about?

That's what I'm going with.

[Bern]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

Jeffrey Miller, a Canadian lawyer, writer and blogger, wrote two blogs on this issue generally in 2010 and 2003. The 2010 article is linked here. The earlier article can be linked in the 2010 article.

http://jeffreymiller.ca/chief-wahoo-...o-smile-about/

This phrase succinctly communicates the issue;
" As one view puts it, Chief Wahoo has become the ‘little red Sambo’ of the 21st century."

[Arthur Dailey]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

Let's face it, society did many stupid things during the 20th century.

Looking the other way regarding domestic abuse and driving after drinking.
Restricting Aboriginal rights regarding voting and drinking (look them up).
The 'scoop' of aboriginal children.
Prohibiting the immigration of Chinese, after the Head Tax.
Locking up 'Enemy Aliens'.
Confiscating the property of Japanese-Canadians.
Restricting the right to vote based on religion (right until after the 2nd World War), gender, ancestry.
The Komagata Maru incident.
Racism in Nova Scotia.
Rampant xenophobia in Quebec.
Homophobia.
Disco.
Vinyl roofs, opera windows and coach lights on cars.
The racial epithets that you used to hear constantly.

As someone said "if you think that something is too politically correct, it is generally because it is infringing on something that you have taken for granted as part of your entitlement". And I would guess that the majority of TGN'ers are Caucasian, male, have English as their first language, are past the age of majority,gainfully employed and financially able to afford the time and cost associated with the game of golf. Therefore, not representative of the majority of Canadians and as far as private club members, closely associated with the 1%.

Society changes and adapts. And if a group of people believe that something is discriminating against them or offensive to them as a group, then it is.

Who would it hurt to change the logo?
Who would it hurt to change the name?
How many even know the reason behind the name?

Professional sports franchise owners move and/or change their team names and/or logos quite often.

In fact changing the name and logo could be a financial windfall. They would sell out of the old stock as 'collectors items' and be able to sell the new stuff to all the existing fans. Even better than adding a 3rd 'jersey'.

[Pimento Cheese]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

Let's face it, society did many stupid things during the 20th century.

Looking the other way regarding domestic abuse and driving after drinking.
Restricting Aboriginal rights regarding voting and drinking (look them up).
The 'scoop' of aboriginal children.
Prohibiting the immigration of Chinese, after the Head Tax.
Locking up 'Enemy Aliens'.
Confiscating the property of Japanese-Canadians.
Restricting the right to vote based on religion (right until after the 2nd World War), gender, ancestry.
The Komagata Maru incident.
Racism in Nova Scotia.
Rampant xenophobia in Quebec.
Homophobia.
Disco.
Vinyl roofs, opera windows and coach lights on cars.
The racial epithets that you used to hear constantly.

As someone said "if you think that something is too politically correct, it is generally because it is infringing on something that you have taken for granted as part of your entitlement". And I would guess that the majority of TGN'ers are Caucasian, male, have English as their first language, are past the age of majority,gainfully employed and financially able to afford the time and cost associated with the game of golf. Therefore, not representative of the majority of Canadians and as far as private club members, closely associated with the 1%.

Society changes and adapts. And if a group of people believe that something is discriminating against them or offensive to them as a group, then it is.

Who would it hurt to change the logo?
Who would it hurt to change the name?
How many even know the reason behind the name?

In fact changing the name and logo could be a financial windfall. They would sell out of the old stock as 'collectors items' and be able to sell the new stuff to all the existing fans. Even better than adding a 3rd 'jersey'.

This is an excellent post.

[Gridiron]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

Really? The area is named for the tribe. Big difference between mid 20 century caricatures of Native Americans.

If your suggestion is we need to change all Native names, then what should we call our country? Our capitol? Our cottage country?

If someone decides that they find it offensive, then yes, we will have to change it.

The Florida State Seminoles are named for a tribe. The tribe itself supports the association. The rest of America seems to know better and calls for the end of the name. Who is right?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/24/sports/florida-state-can-keep-its-seminoles.html?_r=0

"There was never any doubt where the Seminole Tribe of Florida stood on Florida State University's nickname. The tribe helped university boosters create the costume for the Chief Osceola mascot, approving the face paint, flaming spear and Appaloosa horse that have no connection to Seminole history."

[dmcdam]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

If someone decides that they find it offensive, then yes, we will have to change it.

The Florida State Seminoles are named for a tribe. The tribe itself supports the association. The rest of America seems to know better and calls for the end of the name. Who is right?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/24/sports/florida-state-can-keep-its-seminoles.html?_r=0

"There was never any doubt where the Seminole Tribe of Florida stood on Florida State University's nickname. The tribe helped university boosters create the costume for the Chief Osceola mascot, approving the face paint, flaming spear and Appaloosa horse that have no connection to Seminole history."

I see a difference between a city adopting the Native name of a local tribe or land versus a commercial entity like a sports team using it to make money.

[Bern]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

If someone decides that they find it offensive, then yes, we will have to change it.

The Florida State Seminoles are named for a tribe. The tribe itself supports the association. The rest of America seems to know better and calls for the end of the name. Who is right?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/24/sports/florida-state-can-keep-its-seminoles.html?_r=0

"There was never any doubt where the Seminole Tribe of Florida stood on Florida State University's nickname. The tribe helped university boosters create the costume for the Chief Osceola mascot, approving the face paint, flaming spear and Appaloosa horse that have no connection to Seminole history."

I don't follow your logic.

Actually most of the Seminole people who are situated in Oklahoma are against the name. The Florida Band that approves the use of the Seminole logo are actually a large business enterprise supplying their brand. Here is the background.

https://www.thenation.com/article/florida-state-seminoles-champions-racist-mascots/

[NineNineSix]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

The Irish and the Celtics both have a sizeable claim in building and honouring the cities in which they represent. Simply look at the police and fire departments which have huge numbers of Irish Americans in Boston and parts of the east coast.

For people to forget the atrocities committed against First Nations in North America and then pass it if when you see a comical, red faced, big smiling "Indian" is near sighted and simply ignorant. Where is their stake in Cleveland? Or much of North America, which they were the First Peoples?

Wow, I'm saddened that this vote is so even.

Irish immigrants to North America for many many years faced terrible persecution.

To me, if the Chief Wahoo mascot/logo is racist, then certainly the Fightin Irish and Celtics mascot/logo are as well.

[Arthur Dailey]

Re: Is the "Indians" name offensive, or are we to politically correct now

Irish immigrants to North America for many many years faced terrible persecution.

To me, if the Chief Wahoo mascot/logo is racist, then certainly the Fightin Irish and Celtics mascot/logo are as well.

Certainly Catholic Irish were discriminated against for decades.
The Toronto Police for example maintained for a major part of the 20th century a quota on how many they would employ/hire.

However not sure if that many of Irish descent are upset by the 'fighting Irish' stereotype. From Wikipedia: "The success of Notre Dame reflected rising status of Irish Americans and Catholics in the 1920s. Catholics rallied up around the team and listened to the games on the radio, especially when it knocked off the schools that symbolized the Protestant establishment in America—Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Army. Yet this role as high-profile flagship institution of Catholicism made it an easy target of anti-Catholicism. The most remarkable episode of violence was the clash between Notre Dame students and the Ku Klux Klan, a white supremacist and anti-catholic movement, in 1924." So considerably different as the Irish felt that the institution represented them and they had a connection to it, supporting it and hoping to have their children attend it. So very much unlike the Cleveland baseball team's connection to Native Americans.

And speaking of quotas and restrictions, think of why Oakdale G&CC was created. Thankfully we have mostly learned the error of this type of thinking.