Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

[wrigley]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

You're not considering the effects of the expansion draft plus you are overrating Fowler imo.

They are going to lose a good young d-man, they have to protect Bieksa. They will have to chosse two out of, Vatanen, Fowler, Manson and Lindholm. Considering Perry and Getzlaf are getting older, I guess they let go a younger D.

[Pingeye2_fan]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

They are going to lose a good young d-man, they have to protect Bieksa. They will have to chosse two out of, Vatanen, Fowler, Manson and Lindholm. Considering Perry and Getzlaf are getting older, I guess they let go a younger D.

Why do they have to protect Bieksa?

[wrigley]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

Why do they have to protect Bieksa?

He has a no trade clause in his contract. They are actively going to try and trade them before the draft but I don't think there would be many takers.

[Pingeye2_fan]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

He has a no trade clause in his contract. They are actively going to try and trade them before the draft but I don't think there would be many takers.

True, at 35 he couldn't be that appealing to most teams I would imagine.

[Arthur Dailey]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

You're not considering the effects of the expansion draft plus you are overrating Fowler imo.

Do you remember the Taylor Hall for Larsson trade? Hall is 2.5 years younger than JVR and averages .84 points per game while JVR has averaged .64. So Hall is the more valuable player. Yet Larsson while being more physical, is far less accomplished offensively than Fowler and only 11 months younger.

True #1 defense are extremely rare and I do not think that Fowler fits that definition. However he has been/is considered to be the #1 on his team. Fowler's team is in the final 4 in this season's playoffs. 8 points in their first 11 playoff games. That demonstrates how valuable he is.

Fowler and Morgan Rielly are almost the exact same size. Fowler is 27 months older than Rielly. They play about the same type of physical game based on PIM's. Fowler averages 34 points per season, Rielly averages 24.

Would any Leaf fan seriously consider trading Rielly for a JVR type of player?
Defensemen in the NHL are like pitchers in MLB, if moved they are considered more valuable than forwards, much like pitchers are considered more valuable than a position player.

So not only are you over rating JVR's value, you are undervaluing Fowler.


However stranger trades have happened. which is why some GM's/franchises are perennial losers. And the Ducks have a 'good' group of young defensemen who have developed by leaps and bounds this season., for instance Shea Theodore, Manson (despite his brain cramps last night) Lindholm, Vatanen and Montour are all 25 or younger. They have young Larsson playing in Sweden. And Despres who is also 25 but may not be able to recover from concussion issues. Welinski and Thompson both doing well in the 'A'.

[Pingeye2_fan]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

Do you remember the Taylor Hall for Larsson trade? Hall is 2.5 years younger than JVR and averages .84 points per game while JVR has averaged .64. So Hall is the more valuable player. Yet Larsson while being more physical, is far less accomplished offensively than Fowler and only 11 months younger.

True #1 defense are extremely rare and I do not think that Fowler fits that definition. However he has been/is considered to be the #1 on his team. Fowler's team is in the final 4 in this season's playoffs. 8 points in their first 11 playoff games. That demonstrates how valuable he is.

Fowler and Morgan Rielly are almost the exact same size. Fowler is 27 months older than Rielly. They play about the same type of physical game based on PIM's. Fowler averages 34 points per season, Rielly averages 24.

Would any Leaf fan seriously consider trading Rielly for a JVR type of player?
Defensemen in the NHL are like pitchers in MLB, if moved they are considered more valuable than forwards, much like pitchers are considered more valuable than a position player.

So not only are you over rating JVR's value, you are undervaluing Fowler.


However stranger trades have happened. which is why some GM's/franchises are perennial losers. And the Ducks have a 'good' group of young defensemen who have developed by leaps and bounds this season., for instance Shea Theodore, Manson (despite his brain cramps last night) Lindholm, Vatanen and Montour are all 25 or younger. They have young Larsson playing in Sweden. And Despres who is also 25 but may not be able to recover from concussion issues. Welinski and Thompson both doing well in the 'A'.

I think Rielly will have Fowler numbers in two years and possibly surpass him.
I don't think we need a 27 month older Rielly.

[Arthur Dailey]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

I think Rielly will have Fowler numbers in two years and possibly surpass him.
I don't think we need a 27 month older Rielly.

Agreed. Plus Fowler is a left handed shot.

That is why Tanev seems like the more appropriate fit in Toronto. A defensive, defenseman, who is a right handed shot.

[Pingeye2_fan]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

Agreed. Plus Fowler is a left handed shot.

That is why Tanev seems like the more appropriate fit in Toronto. A defensive, defenseman, who is a right handed shot.

A stay at home presence or two in front of the net would compliment our offensive D men nicely.

Who knows if the Caps series would have ended differently if Polak didn't get hurt.

[The Troll]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

Do you remember the Taylor Hall for Larsson trade? Hall is 2.5 years younger than JVR and averages .84 points per game while JVR has averaged .64. So Hall is the more valuable player. Yet Larsson while being more physical, is far less accomplished offensively than Fowler and only 11 months younger.

You're still ignoring the realities of the expansion draft which weren't a consideration for the Larsson trade. As well, Fowler, like JVR, is a UFA after next season. Personally I don't overly care for Fowler as, imo, he hasn't played all that well until very recently. In his body of work he is a 3/4 d-man to me. Last summer the Ducks were trying to move on from him due to his play.

The expansion draft means trading Fowler for JVR also allows them to keep (protect) Silfverberg....so really it is a two'fer.

Trading JVR for Fowler would cost the Leafs JVR and Carrick (now unprotected).

There will be teams that get underpaid in the next month.

[Arthur Dailey]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

You're still ignoring the realities of the expansion draft which weren't a consideration for the Larsson trade. As well, Fowler, like JVR, is a UFA after next season. Personally I don't overly care for Fowler as, imo, he hasn't played all that well until very recently. In his body of work he is a 3/4 d-man to me. Last summer the Ducks were trying to move on from him due to his play.

The expansion draft means trading Fowler for JVR also allows them to keep (protect) Silfverberg....so really it is a two'fer.

Trading JVR for Fowler would cost the Leafs JVR and Carrick (now unprotected).

There will be teams that get underpaid in the next month.

If the Leafs were to get Fowler from the Ducks, it would take more than JVR. That is what I said and I believe that you agree.

Fowler as previously stated is not a true #1. But has filled that role for most of this season.

As a left handed, not particularly physical, player he would help the Leafs by providing more depth, but is not what they need. They require a defensive, right handed shooting defenseman who can play on a top pairing. A shutdown type of guy.

As for Polack, he demonstrated in last year's playoffs how limited he is. He was too slow then and is not getting any faster. He can help in the regular season but not against top quality talent in the final rounds.

[Mattv88]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

If the Leafs were to get Fowler from the Ducks, it would take more than JVR. That is what I said and I believe that you agree.

Fowler as previously stated is not a true #1. But has filled that role for most of this season.

As a left handed, not particularly physical, player he would help the Leafs by providing more depth, but is not what they need. They require a defensive, right handed shooting defenseman who can play on a top pairing. A shutdown type of guy.

As for Polack, he demonstrated in last year's playoffs how limited he is. He was too slow then and is not getting any faster. He can help in the regular season but not against top quality talent in the final rounds.

Polak* was doing a pretty good job against the Caps prior to his injury.

[Arthur Dailey]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

Polak* was doing a pretty good job against the Caps prior to his injury.

He was exposed in last year's playoffs, particularly in the finals against Pittsburgh. Even though his ice time was curtailed and he was on the 3rd pairing. Their reliance on their top 2 pairings, hurt them as the team progressed.

He had the 2nd worst Fenwick and Corsi numbers of any Shark defenseman in the playoffs.

Also he was one of only two Sharks to finish with a minus in the playoffs. Yes I know that plus/minus is not a great stat but it is somewhat useful when comparing a player to the rest of their team.

Now he might be better under the current Leaf coach's system. After all even Hal Gill looked good in a system that suited him.

[High cut]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

If the Leafs were to get Fowler from the Ducks, it would take more than JVR. That is what I said and I believe that you agree.

Fowler as previously stated is not a true #1. But has filled that role for most of this season.

As a left handed, not particularly physical, player he would help the Leafs by providing more depth, but is not what they need. They require a defensive, right handed shooting defenseman who can play on a top pairing. A shutdown type of guy.

As for Polack, he demonstrated in last year's playoffs how limited he is. He was too slow then and is not getting any faster. He can help in the regular season but not against top quality talent in the final rounds.

Sounds like they should target that big, right shot D that's with Ottawa right now. Maybe we can pry him away as they may not want to pay him after this playoff run? Anyone remember his name?

[Pingeye2_fan]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

Sounds like they should target that big, right shot D that's with Ottawa right now. Maybe we can pry him away as they may not want to pay him after this playoff run? Anyone remember his name?

Ottawa will never trade Karlsson

[Arthur Dailey]

Re: Toronto Maple Leafs 2017 - 2018 thread

Sounds like they should target that big, right shot D that's with Ottawa right now. Maybe we can pry him away as they may not want to pay him after this playoff run? Anyone remember his name?

#1 defensemen are probably the hardest to find and most valuable commodity in the NHL. Particularly if they are right handed shots.

I am sure that Leaf fans would be quite happy if management were able to find them a Sylvain Lefebvre or Bob Rouse type of player.