Doug Ford: Term #2

[vermin40]

Exactly. Spending is up in healthcare, and pretty much across the board. No cuts.

And no matter how much money is thrown at each individual crisis…..shockingly none get solved. It’s only - we didn’t spend enough.

[Fredk]

No it isnt. A “cut” is a reduction. Only a liberal would view an increase in spending as a cut.

Three billion underspend last year. Three billion added back in this year. Not an increase. Did you not pay attention in accounting 101?

[SeanAvery2point0]

Three billion underspend last year. Three billion added back in this year. Not an increase. Did you not pay attention in accounting 101?

Healthcare spending is up $4.3B YoY.

Spending less than the budgeted amount is not a cut. A cut is a reduction in real program spending YoY. Was healthcare spending in 2022 less than 2021? Was healthcare spending in 2021 less than 2020?

If my business spent $0 on capital investment in 2020, and in 2021 we budgeted $10M for capital investments but spent only $8M, did we increase or cut capital investment YoY?

*insert snide remark about accounting here*

[4wedges]

And no matter how much money is thrown at each individual crisis…..shockingly none get solved. It’s only - we didn’t spend enough.

Exactly. It seems every government throws $$ at the problem without any long term solution.

[Jeffc]

Exactly. It seems every government throws $$ at the problem without any long term solution.

Because they think in 4 year chunks. Fixing the health care system requires a long term plan that Governments are generally not very good at.

[4wedges]

Because they think in 4 year chunks. Fixing the health care system requires a long term plan that Governments are generally not very good at.

Very true.

[dmcdam]

Because they think in 4 year chunks. Fixing the health care system requires a long term plan that Governments are generally not very good at.

I think governments could fix things long term, but the tough decisions that would be required aren't a reality most voters would be willing to face up to. As a politician, you'd pretty much be punching your own ticket to the unemployment line.

[Ignatius Reilly]

I think governments could fix things long term, but the tough decisions that would be required aren't a reality most voters would be willing to face up to. As a politician, you'd pretty much be punching your own ticket to the unemployment line.

Yeah, I think it's tough to blame politicians for doing things that get them elected. It's both a strength and a weakness of democracy. We should probably blame the voters for not thinking long term.

I've also heard that some business decisions are based on short-term goals like bonuses and quarterly results.

The health budget continues to grow because the population continues to grow and to age (and people consume the bulk of their healthcare in old age as all the parts are wearing out). Not much any politician can do about that.

[Fredk]

Because they think in 4 year chunks. Fixing the health care system requires a long term plan that Governments are generally not very good at.

Many voters don't much like or understand long term plans IMO.

[Fredk]

... Not much any politician can do about that.

They could come up with a long term plan ...

[SeanAvery2point0]

Fredk are you going to elaborate on where the healthcare cuts took place?

[Arthur Dailey]

Fredk are you going to elaborate on where the healthcare cuts took place?

Guess what. There were some. And to Public Health prior to the pandemic.
The linked sources are not subjective but they do itemize their statements and support them with citations.

https://www.progresstoronto.ca/public-health-cuts-petition

In August 2019, Doug Ford announced more cuts to Public Health Services across Ontario [2]. Many public health programs in Toronto receiving 100% funding from the Province were cut to 70% funding. This created a $14.1 million annual cut to Public Health in Toronto alone - and even more province-wide [3].

In 2020, Ford’s Public Health cut to Toronto Public Health was $4.5 million. These cuts could mean big cuts to Toronto’s Infectious Diseases Programs and other programs.

Doug Ford’s funding cuts and cost-sharing changes have remained in place. He has provided some one-time funding to Toronto for 2020 - but not enough.

In 2019, Doug Ford announced big cuts to Toronto Public Health. Weeks after his announcement, in response to the public pressure Progress Toronto and thousands helped create, Ford reduced his cuts.

https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/category/key-issues/cuts-restructuring/

2021 could have been far worse if COVID-19 had hit this year instead of last. Doug Ford’s government would have further implemented their plans for cuts to hospitals, schools and long-term care.

His plan was to cut $200 million per year from hospitals. COVID-19 stopped that in his second year of cutting. He did manage to cut LTC inspections by some 90 per cent and you see where that got us.

Christine Elliott would have reduced the number of health units from 35 to 10, but was stopped by COVID-19.

[bcampb00]

Fredk are you going to elaborate on where the healthcare cuts took place?

There were no cuts to healthcare. The government didn't increase spending enough - that's the same as a "cut". Didn't you pay attention in Accounting 101?

[SeanAvery2point0]

Guess what. There were some. And to Public Health prior to the pandemic.
The linked sources are not subjective but they do itemize their statements and support them with citations.

https://www.progresstoronto.ca/public-health-cuts-petition



https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/category/key-issues/cuts-restructuring/

Healthcare spending is broad, and to argue that healthcare spending was 'cut' you would have to show that there was negative growth in total healthcare spending. Certain programs losing funding or receiving less funding is not a 'healthcare spending cut'. For (at least) the last 20 years, healthcare spending in Ontario has increased, the only thing that changes YoY is the rate of spending growth and the allocation of the dollars.

The only (somewhat) 'sensible' argument that healthcare spending has been 'cut' in Ontario is that spending growth has been outpaced by population growth and inflation, thus per capita spending is down (approx $200/yr per capita decrease in FY2021).

[Arthur Dailey]

Healthcare spending is broad, and to argue that healthcare spending was 'cut' you would have to show that there was negative growth in total healthcare spending. Certain programs losing funding or receiving less funding is not a 'healthcare spending cut'. For (at least) the last 20 years, healthcare spending in Ontario has increased, the only thing that changes YoY is the rate of spending growth and the allocation of the dollars.

The only (somewhat) 'sensible' argument that healthcare spending has been 'cut' in Ontario is that spending growth has been outpaced by population growth and inflation, thus per capita spending is down (approx $200/yr per capita decrease in FY2021).

There were some 'cuts' to healthcare. As illustrated some programs had their funding 'cut'.

I believe that was the exact question posed?
Yes, semantics. But phrasing and wordplay can be important.
Or used as an irritant.

Was overall healthcare spending cut?

That was not I believe the question posed. However your last paragraph does address how that should be measured.